The following is a transcript of VIXIO GamblingCompliance's November 16th webinar, “Meet The Regulators” featuring the chief regulatory officials charged with introducing online and retail sports betting in three key states that all passed laws earlier in 2021.
MATT CAREY: Good morning, everybody in the U.S. Good afternoon to our friends over in the UK and Europe. Welcome to the webinar. Thank you so much for joining us. I am absolutely thrilled. I have a great panel here of three of the top regulators in the U.S. in markets that are very interesting, I think, to a lot of potential attendees here today. I just want to give a quick run through if you're not familiar with or already a subscriber to VIXIO GamblingCompliance. We are the global gambling industry's premier business and regulatory intelligence service based in Washington, DC, and London, England.
We help all stakeholders interested in the U.S. sports betting and gaming markets to develop effective business strategies that take account of fast changing policy and market dynamics. Specifically, users of VIXIO GamblingCompliance intelligence platform can track and identify partnership opportunities, especially with our U.S. sports betting partnership tracker; generate customizable market forecasts based on their own market access portfolios; compare regulatory and licensing requirements across any combination of states; access thought leadership and insight into the latest developments in the industry; and review enforcement activity and ensure proactive compliance.
Our existing clients include market leading sportsbook and gaming operators, technology and service providers, law firms, state and tribal regulators, state lotteries, major sports leagues, investment groups, plenty of others. So let me get straight into it. Let's introduce our panel first. I have John Martin, who is the director of the Maryland Lottery and Gaming Control Agency. John took over the top post earlier this year but served for previous years as managing director and chief revenue officer.
And we have Ronnie Johns, who is the chairman of the Louisiana Gaming Control Board. He also took over that post this summer. He's very familiar with gaming through his work as a legislator for over 20 years in Louisiana, first in the state House and most recently a state senator.
Finally, Ted Vogt is executive director of the Arizona Department of Gaming. He's been in that post since 2019. Ted, also a former legislator, having served in the state House while directing the state Department of Veteran Services and the Arizona Corporation Commission which oversees the state's public utilities.
Gentlemen, again, I want to thank you all so much for joining us today. It's a great group, and I think most relevant to our interest here today is that each of you are chief regulators in states that are overseeing sports betting for the first time this year, which is obviously an exciting transition. As you guys know, sports betting is live and operational today in 29 states, plus Washington, DC, with Puerto Rico set to join in the near future, and Wisconsin set to join in the near future.
And as I'm sure we'll hear about in a few minutes, Maryland set to join us in the near future. We are forecasting the U.S. sports betting market to reach $4.6 billion in gross revenue before rising to $12.2 billion to $17.7 billion in gross revenue in 2025, assuming expansion up to 41 to 46 states. And obviously it's appropriate to be hosting these three particular states today, Arizona, Louisiana, and Maryland, because I think they're the states that are the most widely significant in terms of the nine states that passed bills in 2021. Our forecast has the three states worth $1.1 billion in total gross sports wagering revenue in 2025.
And I think especially interesting is that from a market access perspective, states like New York and Florida command a lot of the headlines, all of these states have a much wider availability in terms of the amount of market access opportunities they have. In Maryland alone, there are 60 standalone online licenses. There are 41 online skins in Louisiana and at least 20 skins available in Arizona, and obviously many of those filled already, which we'll discuss later compared to New York, where there's only nine licenses, and essentially just one platform in Florida.
Let's get into the panel, I guess. First, Ted, you were the first person here to launch sports betting—in Arizona—you guys launched in September just in time for football season. Okay. First question for you is how has the launch gone relative to what your expectations were coming in?
TED VOGT: Well, thanks, Matt, and thank you for having me here today. I can't believe I'm the old guy here in terms of tenure as the director, but things have gone very well in Arizona. I think we had a very organized rollout, even though we had an extremely aggressive time frame to complete the rollout. The legislation was signed on April 15, and we went live on September 9. We went through the rulemaking process and all sort of the licensing in a total of 147 days. It was aggressive, but we were very well organized.
And I think a lot of our success was because we created an open dialogue with the potential operators very early on. We got an exemption from the normal rulemaking process from the legislature and the governor, which was critical to being able to meet this aggressive time frame, as well as one of the things that I sort of communicated to the executive was if we want to go through this quickly, don't get overly prescriptive in the legislation, sort of delegate a lot of those decisions down to the Department to kind of work through, because, quite frankly, internally, we didn't know what our roadblocks could be as we were drafting the legislation. Excuse me, the rules. So we didn't want legislation sort of painting us into a box where it was going to make it less efficient. With sort of the latitude given to us by the legislature and the executive, the open communication and dialogue that we created with the operators as we drafted the rules, as well as continuing on to sort of a weekly Q&A with them, as we were going through the licensing process, it went very well. And we're going to be releasing numbers later this month on how the first full month of event wagering went in the state of Arizona.
MATT CAREY: You guys did the public stakeholder meetings. I remember watching those leading up to the launch. Where did the inspiration to do those come from? And I know you mentioned they were helpful.
TED VOGT: Sure, two main reasons why we did that one, we didn't have the expertise internally when it came to all things sports betting. And so, we really wanted to engage the industry to help us sort of sanity check what we were thinking, kind of work through the issues, what worked in other states, what do they wish for different. So we wanted to engage the industry. The other part of it was because so much authority had been delegated down to the Department. We felt we really needed to conduct all of this in the open so that nobody could go back and say, hey, there was some sort of deal cut in the smoky back room or anything like that.
It was really sort of a nod to the legislature as well as the governor's office. We were going to do everything transparently so people could see how we do this. It was sort of new for the rulemaking process. When we would put out our draft, it was sometimes hard to convince people that this is not our final draft. This is going to be an iteration, and this is going to be an iterative process. But as we kind of worked through that, people became more comfortable with how we were doing it.
I was really pleased with the process. I think everybody got their voice heard, and it really helped us speed through the rulemaking process.
MATT CAREY: Ronnie, I'm going to turn to you here. Sort of the same question I actually asked Ted, you guys have just started to launch sports betting there in the last few weeks. So how has that process of getting from the legislation stage to now the launch stage gone relative to what you expected coming into it, especially coming into it as a new regulator this summer?
RONNIE JOHNS: Well, first of all, Matt, thank you for having me this morning. I'm kind of the new kid on the block in terms of regulation. I've only been on the job a little less than four months now, but I was very involved in the legislation that created sports betting here in Louisiana. I'll give you a little historical perspective of how this happened. In 2020, we had a statewide referendum. We allowed all 64 of our parishes—which are actually counties everywhere else, but Louisiana is a little different, we have parishes—but we gave each parish an opportunity to vote whether they would accept sports betting or not. We had 55 out of the 64 parishes that voted yes. So that left nine parishes that said no, we do not want sports betting, and we'll talk about that a little later on as we get into online.
But we've had a great roll out. Our first rollout has been on-property only. We allowed 20 entities. We have 16 casinos in Louisiana, and we have four racetracks, pari-mutuel race tracks. So the legislation allowed those 20 entities to apply for an on-property sports betting license, and we initiated those that the legislature met this past spring. I was still in the Senate at that time, and we crafted the legislation that implemented sports betting, along with the taxes and the way that we wanted to do it.
Initially, we've had 13 out of the 20 submit applications, and as of today, I've actually issued eight licenses to different properties around the state. All of our markets around the state are actually part of an operation right now, northwest Louisiana, southwest Louisiana, the middle part of Baton Rouge, and, of course, the New Orleans area. So everybody has some representation of a license. Now the rollout has gone extremely well. Our first four licenses went into effect October 31. It was an interesting weekend, particularly in New Orleans. We had the New Orleans Saints playing the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. We had Tom Brady coming to New Orleans, and we rolled it out that morning and had incredible activity down in the New Orleans market that particular morning. So since then, we've issued four more licenses, and as of today, I've got eight licenses that have been actually approved and are operational right now. We've been extremely pleased with the rollout. We've had no problems. The interest in the rollout has been just phenomenal, even much more than we actually expected.
I do anticipate the other five pending licenses to be issued in the next coming weeks, and that will leave seven properties that have not put in their application yet. But our legislation requires them to submit an application prior to December 31 of this year. If they don't, they lose that opportunity to apply for that license, and we would actually open that license back up in an open market and our board here in Louisiana would determine who would get those licenses. But I do anticipate all seven of those do actually apply.
And there's been various reasons why they haven't applied yet, but they're going to. So I've talked a lot, but we're very pleased with the roll out, and we're really looking forward to getting into the mobile side of this in the coming months.
MATT CAREY: John, let me turn to you here. Unlike the other two, you guys have not launched yet in Maryland, you also have kind of a trickier regulatory set-up there where you're the regulator of the Lottery and Gaming Control agency, whereas you also have the Sports Wagering Application Review Commission, which effectively green-lights and selects the licensed applicants. Can you talk a little bit about what has to happen there for sports betting to get off the ground?
JOHN MARTIN: Yeah. Matt, thanks again for the opportunity to be here with Ronnie and Ted. I do appreciate it. I could probably use up the rest of the time just going into all of that. So let me thank Ted and Ronnie for participating today. We have some parting gifts. But seriously, we have, and I may be biased, the most comprehensive sports wagering legislation in the country, and that probably has its pros and cons, but I believe there are three contributing elements as to why we still, at this stage, do not have sports wagering in the state.
First and foremost, as you alluded to it, the legislation created an independent group called the Sports Wagering Application Review Commission, the SWARC, who is to work with us in tandem to approve the licenses. And I don't think I'm talking out of school here, the reality is that we have really yet to work well together. That's a work in process. And when you realize that we may have another 12 to 24 months of this, we absolutely have to find a way to work with the SWARC to make this happen.
The second thing the legislation did was allow for, by name, 18 entities of land-based facilities to be the first wave of applicants in the first entrance into the marketplace. That's the six casinos in Maryland, five offtrack betting locations, the three professional sports teams, two of our largest bingo halls in the state, and two pari-mutuel tracks. Actually, the two racetracks will share one license. So 17 noncompetitive licenses were identified in legislation, as well as the potential for another 30 competitive bid licenses on the brick-and-mortar side, and up to 60 mobile licenses.
Now, I'll save you the quick math, that's the potential to have 107 licenses in the state of Maryland. Now, your fact-checkers can call me out on this, but I believe Colorado is the leader in the clubhouse with 26 entities today. And so you're looking at the enormity of the task potentially here in Maryland when you look at the upside. And third in that process is a very real and appropriate stipulation of legislation that we open the door to small businesses, minority-owned businesses, and women-owned businesses to be stakeholders, not in name only, but in actuality whether that be as the enterprise owners but have some equity in the game.
And that process is evolving on how that happens. And I think we have a number of well-intentioned people in the state of Maryland who are looking at all of this and the law from their own point of view. And we really have to come together as an entity, a collective body, to make this happen. We've done as much as we can at Maryland Lottery and Gaming. We have already qualified five of the applicants that have fulfilled their application requirements, and we have turned them over to the SWARC for their final award.
We actually have a four-step approval process between the two entities, and we're only halfway through that for the five entities. So we're sitting here hopeful that SWARC will move very quickly so we can get on to the ultimate completion of the task and get sports wagering up and running.
MATT CAREY: Let me stick with you here, John, and we'll ask what, given those sort of issues, and you talked about qualifying the entities were already named. Can you kind of talk about what your main focus is in terms of regulating at this stage of the game?
JOHN MARTIN: As I mentioned, there's a four-step process, and it may be foreign to many of the people watching and listening to our webinar today. But the first part of the process that SWARC is responsible for is what we call suitability. Is the applicant suitable to be a sports wagering entity? Is it in the public interest that they'd be awarded a license? So SWARC looks at their business plan, looks at their geographic constraints. The law put in some very specific exclusivities, geographically, they look at the diversity plan.
They go through a number of qualifiers to determine are they, in fact, suitable, and they pass it to us for the qualification phase. And qualifying means the financial strength and integrity of that organization. It means a criminal background check. It means being consistent with what we do day in and day out as we regulate the casino industry here in Maryland. And once we find the applicant is qualified, we then return it back to the SWARC for their award of a license. And quite frankly, I don't know what that means yet because we haven't completed that process.
So until SWARC awards a license, they then return back to us for the fourth and final step, which is the issuance of the license. And that's where we go to a very detailed surveillance check, security check, background accounting systems, responsible gaming plans, training programs. And it culminates in a controlled demonstration before we can actually hand them the keys and open the doors for sports wagering. So we have a lot on our plate once we get past this next phase. But concurrently, we're also doing things with awarding licenses that don't need SWARC approval for facility operators, vendors, contractors, employees.
We're continuing to do what we can to get ready for when SWARC is awarding the licenses.
MATT CAREY: Ronnie, I'll ask the same question over to you. What are your main focuses at this point? Obviously, you said you've got the licenses that are being issued. Now you've got the launches that are happening. What do you look at in terms of as a regulator, as your sort of main focus?
RONNIE JOHNS: Well, our main focus is to complete this initial phase of on-property licensing. As I said, our legislation allowed for 20 entities to get up and running, all of these that are open now in temporary facilities. We've actually issued temporary licenses to these properties. We'll be coming back and issuing permanent licenses later on as they build out their permanent facilities. I've looked at a lot of the plans that they're coming up with as far as their permanent facilities, some of these properties are going to make a very large investment in building out their sportsbook parlors.
And I'm very impressed with that as we're going through that process. Let me just say this, the way our process works here in Louisiana, Louisiana State Police does our investigative work, the gaming division there. We have about 125 troopers in Louisiana that do nothing but gaming work. And so they do a phenomenal job on the investigation end. And the compliance end, with that, our attorney general's office has a gaming division which lends us the legal support that we need. So we all work in conjunction with each other.
We have a great working relationship between the three entities, and that's the only way we can make it work. But in the meantime, we're working feverishly to try to get our online process, and it's ongoing right now in the licensing process for online. Our goal on that is going to be in early 2022 to go live on mobile. But there's some real challenges there for us. And I think you may want to talk a little later about mobile, am I correct?
MATT CAREY: Yeah.
RONNIE JOHNS: But that's basically where we are right now. I'm really trying to get these 20 entities licensed and up and running. And then we want to go live with mobile.
MATT CAREY: And Ted, again, I'll ask you the same question. Sort of where you are at the grizzled veteran sports betting stage of two months. What do you look at as your main focus? Is it still getting licenses off the ground, or is it now, have you shifted more into a maintenance regulatory mode?
TED VOGT: So kind of three main issues that we're looking at One is getting the rest of the licenses off the ground. So there were 20 event wagering licenses available in the state for mobile/retail. The Department allocated 18 of those. We've got nine operators who are up and going, and the two that weren't allocated are the subject of some lawsuits. And then we're trying to get the other licensees up and going because they've got 180 days after allocation to start operations or the license reverts back to the state and will be reallocated.
There were also ten limited event wagering operator licenses that provide for retail only, and those are targeted more at the horseracing tracks and their OTBs. We are in the current application process for that right now, hoping to allocate those in December. So we're working on that. And then finally, we have the exemption from the rulemaking process for one year. So we're just kind of going through and refining our rules. We've got until April 15 to complete that before they kind of lock in those rules going forward.
So still a lot of work to do, but we feel confident that we're going to be able to successfully complete all those tasks.
MATT CAREY: And I just want to quickly invite anyone, all the attendees, to simply submit questions. We're hoping to get to some in the last few minutes of the webinar, and I'm going to keep an eye on them as we go here to see if there's anything particularly relevant to what we're talking about at the moment, but yeah, like I said, please submit questions and we'll hopefully get to those in a few minutes.
Ronnie, you mentioned mobile. Let's get into that. They said you want to try and get mobile in January. What do you see as the biggest hurdles in getting operators to that point where they have the green light to launch mobile?
RONNIE JOHNS: Well, there are a couple of issues that we're dealing with in Louisiana right now. First of all, it was relatively easy, but it was a lot easier on the initial launch with the on-property, because those properties are already licensed here in Louisiana. They had gone through their background checks or compliance. So we didn't have to do that. State Police is having to go through a very comprehensive compliance and background checks and those issues with all of the vendors that the properties will be using. So that's going to take a little bit more time.
The other issues I mentioned earlier, we had 55 out of our 64 parishes that will be eligible for mobile. The other nine will have to be geofenced out. And so we've got to make absolutely sure that the geofencing is working properly, that it's in place at the time that we do go live. And I know that State Police is working very diligently on that issue right now. I think we've all seen geofence technology. It's kind of incredible how it works, and it's usually very accurate and works well in other states, but we've never done it here in Louisiana.
So this is a new ballgame for us with geofencing. I think those are our challenges right now, just getting through the compliance process and the background checks and then making sure geofencing is in place and it's working properly at the time that we do go live. We want to do it quickly as possible, but we want to do it the right way. We want to make sure it's absolutely done the way that the legislature has instructed us to do. We're going to move as quickly, but as prudently as we can.
MATT CAREY: And Ted, you guys have already launched mobile. Were there any hurdles that, I guess, items on the checklist that were particularly problematic but thorny or difficult to overcome as you guys saw launch? What were the hurdles you guys saw in terms of getting mobile operators off the ground?
TED VOGT: I think probably the biggest thing was to communicate to the event wagering operators, make yourself aware of all the tasks you're going to need to go through, including the certification of your system, which the Department needs to do prior to you going live. It was really just making sure people were familiar with the rules and making sure that they had in mind what they needed to do to go live. I will say, with the geofencing, the legislation here in Arizona requires that the tribal lands be geofenced off from the statewide mobile.
That was a bit of a challenge for us. What we found is there were a lot of tribal lands that did not have very accurate maps of where their borders were, lots of lands that were taken into trust after the initial establishment of the reservation. So that was something that we had to work through, and we're still working through with the Bureau of Indian Affairs trying to get accurate maps of that. But it's definitely, geofencing is, since it's going to be new for most states, just wrapping your mind around and making sure you've got what you need to have to be effective.
MATT CAREY: I want to pivot to a different topic that's a little bit more off the beaten path. Here one issue we're starting to hear about from regulators and legislators in states where you've had sports betting for some time now has been advertising saturation. Ted, I'm sure you've seen quite the marketing blitz there over the last couple of months. I guess as a regulator, how do you feel about what you've seen so far?
TED VOGT: Well, I definitely have seen a lot of advertising. It's mainly been by the big event wagering operators, the Caesars, the BetMGMs, et cetera. We have received some complaints from folks complaining about just the sheer volume of it. I don't expect that to die down anytime soon because, as I said, we've got sort of this staggered rollout of these operators coming online, and it's something, in a previous life I worked in the ad industry, and it's something that I think these operators need to be mindful of because you can create sort of some bad publicity with that.
But right now, we haven't gotten to the point where we're starting to hear legislators say you need to do something about this or anything like that. But the legislature will be back in town in January, and we'll see what they're hearing about that.
MATT CAREY: Do you see it as something that's something the legislature has to deal with rather than, say, looking at it from a regulatory perspective and putting rules in place?
TED VOGT: Well, I think our rules, we talk about content. We're not talking about frequency or things like that. They're investing a lot of money in the state to get folks to adopt their platform. So it's something we're going to monitor going forward. But again, sort of the metes and bounds of the legislation as well as our rules. We talk about content. We don't necessarily talk about frequency and things like that.
MATT CAREY: John, I'll turn to you here, too. You've probably seen a good amount just from DC and Virginia launching. You're kind of surrounded at this point by states that have sports betting. So I'm sure some advertising has trickled down to Maryland to the various TV markets there. Is it something you look at from a proactive standpoint of, I guess, concern is the right word. How do you feel about the advertising as a regulatory issue?
JOHN MARTIN: Matt, I don't think we're as concerned about advertising saturation as a regulatory concern as much. I mean, our responsible gaming guidelines kind of control, as Ted alluded to, the content part of that. I think, quite frankly, the bigger concern that I have, because I tend to oversee the lottery operations, is the net impact this may have on our traditional lottery advertising, when you look at the increase in facilities and operators and sports wagering competing with messaging and the inventory on the media outlets. Quite frankly, I'm now competing with traditional lottery advertising.
I'm fearful I'm going to see rates increase on my traditional lottery ads that I didn't have before. Now, there's a more competitive environment, and it's really something that I think we're going to need to address. Note to self, meet with your media planning person tomorrow, so I will do that. But I think once we come on board with everything, it's going to be really an issue more of the business side than it is the regulatory side. And I don't want to jump back a little bit, but I may have napped during the mobile question.
So let me just give you a quick run through on the Maryland mobile status. We are awaiting the SWARC's regulatory process to define regulations and applications for our mobile entities, which, unfortunately, I think we're still a long way away. A matter of fact, if you want to pencil me in for November of 2022, when you do this again, maybe we'll be in a better position to talk about the mobile landscape in Maryland. At that point, it's going to take a long time.
MATT CAREY: I'll definitely put you down for the November 2022 edition.
TED VOGT: Maybe we'll have to make that one of the authorized bets here in Arizona.
JOHN MARTIN: I see what you did there, Ted. Nice.
MATT CAREY: Oh, you guys talk about content? Actually, I wanted to get into that, too. Another thing we're starting to see some pushback on is the sort of the language used in some of the bonuses and promotions that operators are offering. In New York, as an example, they just put language in their regulations that limit how operators can use the term “risk free,” which is something we've seen in plenty of operators bonusing materials. Is that something you guys look at as something not today, not tomorrow, but it's something that might become an issue that regulators have to look at down the line?
I guess I'll go to Ted on this one first, too.
TED VOGT: Not that specific issue, but we definitely were concerned about, and still are, that promotions and bonuses may not be misleading or contain false information. That's in our rules. That's something that we review. So we don't want anybody out there getting a misconception of what these bonuses are or are not, and then coming back to us later saying, hey, I was totally misled into this. So it was something that we built into our rules.
MATT CAREY: Ronnie, same question of you here, I guess both on the saturation end as well as the bonusing end and the language used. Where do you stand on this?
RONNIE JOHNS: Well, first of all, we've seen a tremendous amount of advertising in the last few weeks, being that we've rolled out our licenses. Interesting enough, most of the advertising that's being done right now is in preparation for mobile. We're seeing Caesars, FanDuel, DraftKings, others that are advertising their mobile apps, they're offering incentives to go ahead and sign up now. So that's been the majority of the advertising that we were seeing. We haven't encountered any problems yet. It's something that we're going to monitor very closely as things start to really move in the coming months and the coming year with sports betting as it settles in, and see what type of advertising they're going to do.
We're going to look very closely at the content of it. I have had no complaints so far about saturation or anything like that. Our legislature meets once a year. So if it becomes a problem—having served 22 years in the legislature, I can tell you—if there's a problem, the legislature is going to take a swipe at it, and so we'll be working with them. We could do it here in Louisiana. We could do it by rule, or we could do it by legislation. So we'll be monitoring that.
No problems yet. But it's just been interesting to see how much advertising has gone into the mobile aspect of this already here, and we're still months away from it.
MATT CAREY: And John, I know with your experience with your promotional game from running the lottery, so you know, the balance of trying to attract customers while not running afoul of responsible gaming issues and kind of on the language. And is there any concern on that front?
JOHN MARTIN: You know what, the term that's been used, “risk free,” doesn't really bother me as much. I think it's the size of the risk-free offers and just promotion in general that would be potentially concerning. We stipulated limits in our regulations, particularly as it relates to 20% of the gross tax-free after the first year of operation limiting the promotions. And we are now working through the public comment period. We had over 200-plus pages of regulations. Obviously, promotion play was a big part of it, and we had over 600 comments come back from various factions.
So we are very close to wrapping up that process. Promotional play will be an element we will address as we finalize our regs. We're still probably about 30 days away from having that officially wrapped up as it relates to promotional play and other issues.
MATT CAREY: This just actually just came in as a question. So I'll go to that. John, I think you just talked about the deductibility of bonuses from tax revenues. I don't remember off the top of my head if Louisiana or Arizona have tax deductions for promotional play. Can you guys talk about that, Ted and Ronnie?
TED VOGT: Sure. Yeah, we do initially. And then it kind of goes down over the first five years to where it goes to zero. I mean, that was one of the things that certainly industry had asked for. So we've got it. But each year it goes down.
RONNIE JOHNS: Same thing in Louisiana, Matt. We do have taxes on promotional play historically with the casinos, but even before sports betting, they're being taxed here in Louisiana on promotional play. I actually had legislation to try to do away with it. It was such a huge financial hit to the state budget that I didn't get very far. But we did give them some relief on setting a benchmark primarily as to what would be taxed and what would not be taxed. So giving them some relief on it. We're going to see how sports betting plays out.
And that's one of the things that I think the legislature may have to address in the coming year here in Louisiana.
MATT CAREY: And again, please keep submitting your questions. We'll get to them in just a couple of minutes. One thing I wanted to ask you guys at this stage, you guys are all sort of at different stages of the process here. So start with Ted here, what advice would you or do you have? I'm sure you guys are all a fraternity in your own right. What advice would you give to fellow regulators who are there? So I guess what advice would you give in your experience so far?
TED VOGT: Well, I think the biggest thing is just well before the legislation is even being constructed, or wherever you are in the process, reach out to other jurisdictions and talk to them with their experience and find out what worked and what didn't. That was very helpful for us, not only in constructing our rules, but you can become so hyper-focused on everything left of your “go live” date that you're not really paying attention to what you need to be doing once you get to the right of go live. And just finding out what those issues were for different jurisdictions helps you anticipate those and try to problem solve that before you run into them.
And the great thing is that my counterparts and every jurisdiction we've reached out to have been so helpful.
MATT CAREY: Ronnie, same question. You have the experience both of the regulator and the legislature to help craft the bills. So where do you commit on advice that you can get? I guess, actually, I'll ask you for both in terms of as a regulator, plus, as a legislator, what advice would you give?
RONNIE JOHNS: Well, first, I'd echo what Ted said. Reach out to your counterparts around the country and get their advice on how they have rolled out their process. I would just say to other states, just take your time. Don't rush to get to that date. Everybody is just clamoring to get to that open date when we're going to have sports betting, but we had to say no to a lot of properties who wanted to go live a little bit earlier. But we went back and said, we want you to dot your i's and cross your t's and do it the right way.
It's a lot easier to do it the right way up at the beginning instead of having to go back and fix problems later on. So I would say, take your time, be patient, it's going to come, it's going to happen. And then work with your legislators. As to what we've already found, a couple of clean up items that we're going to have to do here in Louisiana next spring as the legislature goes in. Nothing major, but we're going to do those little cleanup items, but just take your time.
Just be patient.
MATT CAREY: And, John, I'll ask the question to you, but I'll add on, since you're going to have so many potential licensing opportunities there. What advice do you have for regulators? But also, what advice do you have for operators looking to get into the market?
JOHN MARTIN: Well, a couple of things there that I would point to. And first of all, it's tough being the third guy in on a question like that when Ted and Ronnie took the good answers. So what I'll do is kind of wrap around that a little bit and not to be repetitive. Clearly, each jurisdiction that we operate in has unique issues. They have unique histories, and they have different objectives, and obviously makes the sports wagering legislation unique in each jurisdiction. So I think the common denominator, though, as regulators as well as operators, is that we are stewards of the public trust.
We need to perform our duties with the utmost of integrity as regulators and transparency, and hopefully then help deliver on the promise of what generating revenue for our state's good causes and beneficiaries was all about. That's the reason, theoretically, that many of us got into the sports wagering business to begin with, so that we can offer an entertaining product for the players where and when they prefer and how they prefer to interact with that. And ultimately, that we advocate for inclusionary practices for anyone qualified to participate in the business of sports wagering.
And so I think that those are messages that, whether you're an operator getting into it or regulator, you try to keep that focus in mind and it will help you get through the day.
TED VOGT: I just would like to also reiterate something I said very early on, that was key to the success of Arizona going live, is creating that open and frequent dialogue with the operators. Yes, for the regulators, that doesn't mean we have to have an adversarial relationship. Like I said, the regulatory commission might not have the expertise with respect to sports betting already in there. So talking to industry, engaging industry, finding out, just like when you're talking to other regulators, what works and what doesn't, finding the same thing from operators is very beneficial and helps you craft a better set of regulations.
JOHN MARTIN: I just want to add again, I just realized that the sun has broken through, and it's not like I have a Messiah complex, and anything that I said necessarily so forward thinking. But I apologize for that little video glitch there.
MATT CAREY: Sorry, you're just particularly well lit, that's all. And I want to apologize. I apologize for the batting order. You just, unfortunately, you're left or right here on my screen.
RONNIE JOHNS: Let me add one other little thing to this last question. I can't tell how many times I've heard from operators and vendors, Mr. Chairman, we don't have to do this in other states. I'm sorry. This is what our legislation says we have to do. This is the way we're going to do it. So don't be bashful about standing up and standing for your principles and the integrity of your program. As I said, you want to do it the right way the first time, you're going to get challenged.
MATT CAREY: Let me stay with you actually on that, Ronnie. As you guys say, you're launching, you've launched the land-based ones already, some of the land-based ones already. What specifically makes mobile launches more challenging or with a longer lead-up than a land-based launch in your experience so far? Basically, why can the land-based operators? Is it quicker to get the land-based operators going?
RONNIE JOHNS: Well, as I alluded to earlier here in Louisiana, the way that we initially set up with the 20 entities, all 20 of those entities have already been vetted. They've already gone through background checks. They've already been licensed in Louisiana. And so the process through our Louisiana State Police gaming division has been a little bit easier. Now we're dealing with other entities that have never been licensed here in Louisiana. And so the way that we do things here in our state, they go through an extensive background checks, we look at their corporate structure, we look at their finances, we look at every aspect of their operation, and we want to make sure that they're compliant with the way that we want to do things here in our state.
So it's a little bit more cumbersome and a little bit more difficult, I guess, to get to that end point. But again, we want to get there as quickly as we can, but we're going to do it the right way. I said January 2022 is a goal. Look, it may be March of 2022 when it all rolls out, but as a regulator, I'll be the one taking the heat for it, but we're going to work it out and we're going to do it the right way.
MATT CAREY: John, I'll throw the same question over to you. I know you guys have the operators that are named specifically, so that I know is one big factor right off the jump. But other factors in terms of a more practical standpoint that they're there?
JOHN MARTIN: Yeah, absolutely. Matt, first off, the land-based entities named are not tethered to mobile licenses, or I guess I said that backwards. But the point is that the 60 potential, up to 60, mobile licenses are all independent of any land-based. So we do expect some of the 17 entities that are starting, plus ultimately the other land-based locations will have an interest in getting an additional mobile license. But we also realize that we may be talking now to a group of people who maybe don't have any experience with the intrusive nature of what an investigative process is to get in the gaming business.
And while it sounds appealing to them, if they're not prepared for that, it's going to add time to that process to get them up and running. And there are some people within the state here who are advocating for a standing start, where we wait and hold all mobile licenses to a future date just to make sure that everyone gets off at the same time. That will add, again, more time into that process if we choose to go that route. But again, we still have to await SWARC's guidelines and on the application for mobile licensing.
MATT CAREY: This is one that I think is a good one. I'll go left to right here on my screen. Ted, I'll start with you here. How much of your regulations would you say were built individually as compared to taking concepts other states do successfully? I guess the question is, how much of your regs do you think were taken from other states, other jurisdictions you looked at and said that's something that works, we want to bring that to Arizona, versus stuff where you looked at it and said, that's not going to work for us, we need something a little bit more specific to our state.
TED VOGT: That's a little challenging to answer. I would say, probably, when we looked at other jurisdictions, at least 75% of the principles contained within the regulations we were able to bring to Arizona. When you're regulating, there are certain things you have to do. We certainly ran into the issue that, hey, Arizona law requires some things that other states don't. As Ronnie was talking about when we were talking to the event wagering operators, et cetera, we had to tell them, look, we'll work where we can, but there are just some places we can't go because of the rules.
But what we did is we were very light in terms of how prescriptive our regulations were, because we did want to leave room for innovation. We don't know what's going to happen in this industry, but we know things are going to change. So as long as we had the real fundamentals to responsible gaming and effective regulation built into those, into our rules, we didn't feel we need to write out every single thing because there is going to be growth in this industry. We want to make sure that we can take advantage of that while still protecting the public from the adverse side of gaming.
MATT CAREY: John, let me jump to you on that one because you had given what you just mentioned about. You have a group of people who are probably going to be coming into your mobile licenses that don't have that experience with either gaming regulation, as strict as it is, or the suitability process, the licensing process. How much, I guess, individualizing do you guys have to do? You mentioned you guys are still in your draft regulation process. How much individualizing do you have to do with your regs as compared to a state that has a model, I'll just say, is closer to New Jersey as an example of like, okay, our model is very similar to those, we can take a lot of what they've done and apply that to ourselves?
JOHN MARTIN: I wish I knew more about what the process was here in Maryland to formulate that. I mean, we weren't really involved with that as much being downstream of it. And I think it's kind of evident in where we are today. As I mentioned at the outset, there are some things that we have in our regulations that I don't know you'll find in any other jurisdiction's legislation good and bad, and I think it's certainly not the most perfect legislation. I think we would agree with that, but it is good and you don't want to ever let perfect be the enemy of good.
So I think we've got a good starting point. I think, as Ronnie pointed out, if there are things that need to be fixed in legislation, the session starts in January, so they have opportunity to look at it if that be the case. But I think there are things in place that are uniquely ours. We own it. We need to work through those things and get those done, so that the people in Maryland who voted a year ago, they expect sports wagering, and we need to deliver on that.
And there are always going to be amendments and changes as you go forward in any legislative process.
MATT CAREY: We're coming up on time. So let me finish off with this one because it's an important thing, and I should have gotten to it sooner. Let's talk about responsible gambling, especially, all three of you are going to be in states where you're going to have, where you do have, mobile betting for the first time. You have some online lottery here and there, but for the most part, this is it. So what provisions do you think were the most important things that you guys are, or have put in place towards responsible gambling?
I guess from the sports betting perspective that I'll start with you again.
TED VOGT: I think one thing that we put in there is definitely communicating the message to public. I mean, if you're hearing you're going to be getting inundated by these ads, there needs to be a responsible gaming message out there. And then two, just making sure that our division of problem gambling, which is in the Department, is well funded because, look, this is a new paradigm for all of us, the fact that people will now be able to gamble from their phone versus getting up and going somewhere. I mean, there's going to be some social costs there that we need to be aware of, make sure that we're tracking that, and then providing services to folks who may have a problem with gambling.
MATT CAREY: Ronnie, same question to you.
RONNIE JOHNS: Well, we've had a very active responsible gaming program here in Louisiana. It's been funded traditionally for years through the tax revenue from the gaming market, from the casino market, and the video poker market. And so they do a great job. There are provisions in our legislation on revenue from sports betting. A portion of it will go into that program, and we hope to build on that. But we're going to continue to take a very hard look at that. We know that it's a really important part of our responsibility to the people of our state to have a program that's active and that does a good job.
So we're very proud of what we do here in Louisiana with that. And we're going to continue to help it grow in their perspective on what they can do in that arena.
MATT CAREY: And, John, sorry to come to you third again on this one, but same question. What do you see here?
JOHN MARTIN: No, we're very proud as well of our responsible gaming efforts. And being on the lottery side as well as the gaming side allows us the chance to get the best of both programs in place. And a lot of our early adopters on the sports wagering side are people who are very familiar with the responsible gaming practices and guidelines, so I'm very confident that we'll continue to serve the people of Maryland with providing the proper messaging and the resources available should they need it.
MATT CAREY: Awesome. Well, again, I want to thank all of you guys for joining us. I thought this was great. I'm so happy we're able to get all you guys on board here for this one, for the attendees who are here. I would love it if you get the feedback form we just put in the chat. I'd love to get your feedback on how this went, how you thought of it, and hopefully we can improve the next time when I bring John and everybody else back here for next year for the November 2022 edition of regulators.
But again, I want to thank you guys for joining us. I want to thank everyone, everyone who watched, and have a great rest of your day. Have a great evening for those of you in Europe, and for those of you here in the U.S, have a great rest of your day. Thanks, guys.
