Abstract
Q1) In the aftermath of the ETUC Congress a reorganization plan was launched. Why? And what are its main goals?
There are both internal and external objectives. The external ones are linked to the fact that we are reshaping our internal way of dealing with political topics. We are in the process of selecting the top priorities on which we will concentrate in the next two years, implementing specific actions and campaigns.
Though this process is still ongoing, we already know some of the top priority elements that will be addressed in it.
One is refugees and migrants. This is truly an emergency for Europe and for free movement in general; and brings with it the need to protect the Schengen agreement and to keep Europe together.
A second element is investment; we have to relaunch investment to boost not just the European economy but also internal demand. That’s why we will probably launch a big campaign about the need for a general pay rise for workers in Europe.
Then there are some other issues, such as the current major attacks on trade union rights. Here, we have already launched a specific campaign to defend trade union rights, and in particular the right to strike.
Moreover, we are going to start discussions with the European Commission on the so-called Social Pillar of the European Union and the European Monetary Union, to see whether it is possible to set upward convergence standards at a social level to re-boost the European social model. In particular, within this framework, there is an ongoing discussion on equal treatment, i.e. equal pay for equal work in the same place. This is something that will be on the table when we start discussing the revision of the Posting of Workers Directive in particular; but on a more general note it’s a principle that should be set at European level, with a view to protecting workers from unfair competition, social dumping, etc.
To achieve all these objectives, we have also to change our internal ways of doing things. First of all, we have to invest a lot in our capacity building. We have to help our affiliates in the different countries to be stronger in social dialogue, in negotiations, and in their capacity to win concrete results for workers.
Then we have also to reinforce our capacity to communicate our political objectives better, and our capacity to include all categories of workers, in particular those most hit by austerity measures, the precariousness in today’s labour market, new forms of work, etc. All these people should be recruited into trade unions. This in turn is a way to relaunch our capacity to coordinate organizing activities, and to increase trade union membership in the different countries.
To do all this, we also need to strengthen the internal coordination of our teams, increasing transparency and promoting the internal exchange of information to achieve better coordination within the ETUC structures.
Q2) Over the last three decades, trade union density has been steadily decreasing in the vast majority of EU Member States. What remedies would the ETUC propose to reverse this trend?
There are two main points here: the fact that the world of work is changing, leading to new categories of workers who are less protected and farther from the unions than traditional workers. This is one of the reasons why trade union membership has decreased over the last few years. But there is also another reason that probably had a major impact on trade union membership in the last five years: the crisis. This has created 23 million unemployed. A large proportion of these were workers who belonged to a union, and it’s clear that the reduction in the employment rate created a major problem and damaged trade unions.
There is thus an external cause: the crisis; and an internal cause: the fact that often the trade unions were unable to keep up with the changes going on in the labour market, inter alia because it is sometimes very difficult to be in touch with precarious workers, young people, self-employed workers, freelancers and those in other new atypical forms of work.
It is very difficult to provide them with concrete proposals for protection. Very often they are not protected in the labour market, and not all of our trade unions are able to respond to their needs through traditional collective bargaining, law-making, etc.
That’s why we are trying to tackle the causes of the phenomenon. That’s why on the one hand we are fighting strongly to overcome the crisis and restore employment and job creation, quality job creation. This has top priority and requires us to invest all our efforts and our capacities, because without creating new jobs it will be very difficult to gain new members.
On the other hand, we also need somewhat to reshape and renew our approach, to be less bureaucratic and more orientated to concrete results for people. We also need to be a little bit more innovative and to think, for example, about new strategies to protect atypical workers, probably involving different responses to the traditional ones.
But this does not just concern precarious or atypical workers. There are also other categories of workers who are not protected at all: migrants for example. We need to invest significant effort in including migrants in our membership.
That’s why, for the first time in its history, the ETUC has launched a clear message and also an organizing campaign. While the ETUC does not directly organize workers – we don’t have individual members – we have been requested by our affiliates to put in place coordination activities, to exchange best practices in terms of organizing and to try to set common strategies for increasing trade union membership throughout Europe.
Q3) In his speech at the ETUC Congress in Paris, Jean-Claude Juncker pleaded for ‘a kind of cordon sanitaire’ to protect social standards, while at the same time prolonging Mr Barroso’s deregulatory agenda. How does the ETUC intend to contest this double-speak?
There is double-speak in the Commission because it is composed of different political forces. It’s a ‘große Koalition’ between centre-right parties and socialist parties at European level. It’s clear that there are sometimes contradictory messages. But what we have to recognize is that, despite the fact that business is continuing as usual when it comes to economic governance, austerity measures and the deregulation that has been taking place in the last years, it’s also true that there is sincere goodwill on the part of Mr Juncker regarding the need for social rebalancing in the European Union.
That’s why he personally launched this idea of having a Social Pillar for resetting social standards. He is insisting strongly on this, even in the College of Commissioners, and the European Commission is going to launch some concrete initiatives in this field.
However, there are some uncertainties. First, we need to make sure that this Social Pillar is not merely a palliative to compensate for austerity, but instead leads to a real change in the European narrative.
The second point is that opinions differ among Member States. There is a risk that the Social Pillar will only be shared and launched by eurozone countries, with the UK and some Central and Eastern European countries not wanting to participate in this exercise of setting better standards. There is thus a risk of a two-speed social Europe in the medium term, against which we will also have to fight.
The third point is that we need to make sure that the very positive statements that Mr Juncker addressed to our Congress in Paris are really transformed into reality by the Commission. So far we have seen a lot of announcements but no concrete results. We really have to negotiate to make sure that this can become reality.
Q4) The ETUC considers the free movement of workers within the Union a core issue. For many workers, free movement has become synonymous with ‘social dumping’ over the past few years. This is particularly the case in the construction and transport sectors, where many workers in north-western Europe have been made redundant by employers who have subcontracted out their work to workers from low-wage countries. What is your answer for these workers?
We have 23 million unemployed people in Europe. At the same time, we have some 2 million vacancies not covered by European workers. So it’s clear that we need a certain amount of mobility to ensure that these jobs are covered. The main reason for the unfair competition between domestic workers and posted or migrant workers and for social dumping is the fact that there is no equal treatment.
The problem is twofold: there is competition between these workers and domestic ones, but at the same time the former find themselves exploited by employers using unfair practices.
The only way to make sure that everyone, whether domestic worker or mobile worker, can find a decent job at a decent wage enabling them to live a decent life, and with decent working conditions, and the only way to counteract unfair competition in the labour market, is to ensure full equal treatment without exploitation.
This is the point on which we always insist when discussing free movement, migration, mobile workers, etc. Equal treatment, equal pay, the same working conditions in the same place for the same job are fundamental to tackling this unfair competition. That’s why this equal treatment element is one of the top priorities for the ETUC and something on which we really need to mobilize our people. We will be launching a specific campaign in the coming weeks and months. And it’s why we are also negotiating this revision of the Posting of Workers Directive. It is not only a matter of equal treatment, but also of avoiding abuse and reducing the duration of postings, because once a certain duration is exceeded, the level of exploitation increases.
Q5) The term ‘social dumping’ is now a key element in the rhetoric of populist leaders like Marine Le Pen in France. This kind of discourse is particularly seductive for people who have been severely affected by the crisis, in particular manual workers. How can we reconcile these people with the European project?
We need to do three things: first we have to fight for equal treatment; second we need to set higher standards at European level; and third we need to make sure that workers understand that if we set higher standards at European level, we can also improve standards at national level. Unfortunately, in a large majority of countries standards have been undermined in recent years because of the crisis and the austerity measures, but also because of continuing deregulation.
So it is really important to insist on these higher standards. The discussions about the Social Pillar will be a good opportunity to try to set higher standards.
But, first of all, we’ll need to change current European economic policies, putting an end to austerity, boosting investment, and making sure that our campaign for a general pay rise for workers, especially low-paid ones, is successful. If we can convey a different message at European level, a message of hope that we can improve the situation in terms of salaries, working conditions and social standards, then probably in the medium term we will be somewhat more successful in changing workers’ perceptions of the European Union.
Q6) In the economic crisis, preventing the loss of jobs through all possible means seemed to be the main preoccupation of the European workers’ movement. In this context, the necessities to defend quality jobs, to improve working conditions and health and safety at work seem to have been put on the back burner …
Quality jobs have always been one of the pillars of our action, even during the worst period of the crisis when the general narrative in Europe was: ‘it’s better to have a job than to fight for a quality job and end up without a job’.
We were absolutely opposed to this approach because it’s a completely stupid one. This is exactly what has happened in Germany over the last 15 years: 7 million new jobs, many of them mini-jobs, but if you look at the total number of working hours, this did not increase at all. In total, salaries and working hours have remained unchanged for 15 years. All that has happened is that these salaries and working hours are now divided up among 7 million more people. This is the model that has spread throughout Europe. And this is the model we are contradicting and fighting against.
Quality jobs are fundamental; quality jobs involve proper health and safety standards, good salaries and decent living standards, better working conditions, etc. To create quality jobs, we have to fight not only for better standards but also for a better performing economy. We need to make sure that, when we have economic growth, it’s not jobless growth but leads to the creation of quality jobs. This is only possible through boosting investment and letting pay rise.
Q7) You come from a Mediterranean country, a region severely hit by the crisis and with very high unemployment rates as a consequence, in particular among the younger generation. Reforms have been implemented, sometimes by centre-left governments. How do you assess these measures?
These reforms have been the wrong ones; they have not produced any concrete effect, because they mainly involved deregulating the labour market, industrial relations, pensions, etc. Even if you look at Spain where there has been a slight improvement in terms of economic growth, there is not much job growth. And when jobs are created, they are just precarious ones. The same thing is happening in Italy.
It is clear that these reforms are not the right ones. In several cases they have been imposed by the European institutions, but in other cases they have been imposed by national governments. In Spain this was a conservative and very neoliberal government, but in Italy – unfortunately – it was a left-wing government that practised such neoliberal policies.
That said, no country in Europe is really able to do anything different without an overall strategy to change the general economic policies of Europe. If Europe continues to focus solely on austerity and deregulation, it will be impossible for any country to put in place something different due to the lack of flexibility, especially within the eurozone. All are obliged to go in the same direction, because there is no alternative. You are completely trapped, whether you are a conservative or a left-wing government. It is the rules that need to be changed.
Bio-express
1969: born in Udine, Italy
1989–1996: General Secretary of the Federation for Tourism, Trade and Services from the Italian Labour Union (UIL)
1996–2011: General Secretary of UIL Friuli Venezia Giulia
May 2011–2015: Confederal Secretary of the European Trade Union Confederation
October 2015: elected General Secretary of the European Trade Union Confederation