The (de-)radical(-ising) potential of r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill

On Reddit, ¹ the r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill forums share the aim of supporting adherents to the extremely misogynistic incel ‘black pill’ and manosphere ‘red pill’ ideologies to move past or ‘exit’ the worldviews associated with these movements. The ‘manosphere’ refers to a collection of diverse but interconnected Internet communities that are united by their staunchly antifeminist and misogynistic beliefs, with the nomenclature of both ‘pill’ ideologies taking inspiration from a scene in The Matrix (1999; Ging, 2019). According to this analogy, ‘taking the pill’ – usually the ‘red pill’ – means that one has been enlightened to women’s allegedly devious biological nature. The ‘black pill’ – associated with incels – advocates more nihilistic responses and has been linked to more extreme violence (Ging, 2019; Thorburn et al., 2022). While these movements have attracted overwhelmingly negative attention within academia and mass-media, the forums discussed here complicate most existing accounts of the manosphere, in that they offer perspectives from individuals who previously supported ‘red pill’ or ‘black pill’ communities, but are now critical of them, or are in the process of questioning their former beliefs (although interested outsiders who do not necessarily have a personal connection to these ideologies also participate in the forums). In essence, these forums sit parallel to the manosphere, offering antidotes to the black and red pills.

The subreddit r/IncelExit was created in October 2019 ² and at the time of writing has over 12,000 subscribers, with the aim to help ‘people who got drawn into the Incel community . . . find a way to get back on track’. ³ Davis’ (2022) recent Master’s thesis is the single comprehensive English-language inquiry into r/IncelExit published to date. Despite its larger subscriber count of over 17,500 and its earlier formation in May 2014, ⁴ r/ExRedPill has not been the focus of any publications. Its community description specifies the subreddit is for ‘former redpillers and others who recognize the damage caused by redpill [sic]’. ⁵ This short article stems from a broader project exploring 12 online communities that discuss singleness, involuntary celibacy and dating strategies, spanning from more ideologically neutral subreddits like r/ForeverAlone and r/ForeverAloneWomen, to manosphere and ‘femcelosphere’ communities including r/TheRedPill and ThePinkPill.co (see Kay, 2021). Based upon my preliminary analysis of 50 posts from two of these subreddits, r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill, this article highlights the significant potential that researching and promoting these spaces offer for recognising masculine agency and men’s capacity to change harmful behaviours, which in turn has significant implications in efforts to counter the misogynistic beliefs associated with the manosphere.

The preliminary findings presented in this article precede a more in-depth analysis and presentation of data collected from an ongoing digital ethnography of the r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill subreddits. The initial observations from collecting and analysing 50 separate posts (including comments) from each group have been highly promising. All data presented here were initially posted between April and August 2022. On the first Monday of May and July 2022, the 10 ‘top’ and ‘most recent’ posts from each forum were selected. A further 10 posts from each forum were collected qualitatively. Using a reflective thematic analysis approach (see Braun and Clarke, 2006), this analysis is based on inductively identified patterns within the data itself, while deductively relating these findings to relevant academic debates and theoretical concepts. Multiple former incels and red pill adherents are engaging with these forums to assist them in moving away from manosphere ideas, with individuals who have exited these groups at an earlier stage participating in the discussion to help others. Given the correlation between the online expression of misogynistic beliefs and the perpetration of violence against women (Blake et al., 2021), these forums’ apparent ability to successfully encourage people to challenge their own beliefs is encouraging and worthy of further academic inquiry, as it demonstrates a potential avenue to counter misogynistic extremism.

Perhaps even more promisingly, I have also observed posts from adolescent boys on the forum who have indicated a familiarity with manosphere ideas, yet who have actively solicited advice from these subreddits for alternative viewpoints to those offered within the manosphere, demonstrating that these subreddits can potentially divert individuals from becoming radicalised in the first place. Such posts are often related to questions regarding experiences of romantic rejection and low-self esteem. For example, one college student asked on r/IncelExit how to move past his feelings of hurt from a crush rejecting him almost a year earlier. Whereas red pill forums promote manipulative dating strategies for individuals to follow (Van Valkenburgh, 2021), with the incel ‘black pill’ ideology offering deterministically nihilist explanations to rejection (Thorburn et al., 2022), commenters responding on r/ExRedPill and r/IncelExit instead offer more moderate and empathetic advice to such issues. Given the large audiences that manosphere figures like Andrew Tate and channels like Fresh and Fit ⁶ enjoy across social media (Das, 2022), any online space that seeks to challenge or avoid the misogynistic social commentary and potentially harmful dating strategies such manosphere celebrities offer, are worthy of more academic attention.

Another notable aspect to these forums is that some users share their personal experiences about how they were initially drawn to the incel and red pill movements. These unique narratives consequently offer rich insights into the manosphere radicalisation process. Oftentimes, these reflections are highly introspective, with one man writing that his attachment to an incel group was a vessel for ‘avoiding my emotions and beating myself up for having them’. ⁷ While typically expressing remorse, other narratives reveal how self-destructive and harmful to others their manosphere beliefs could be. For example, one commenter in an r/ExRedPill thread stated that the red pill caused him to emotionally abuse his ex-girlfriend, while another stated he lost his partner because he cheated on her after following the recommendations of popular manosphere figures. Indeed, a number of women share stories on r/ExRedPill of how their former or current partner had become abusive after engaging with red pill content. Surprisingly, a small number of women participating in the forum also share stories about their own radicalisation to the red pill. For example, one user described how when she was 17, she sought out red pill content in an attempt to become more desirable to men, but later developed various insecurities about her own body, leading her to restrict her diet to stay thin.

Despite the opportunities r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill present, a critical gaze must be kept here. As Davis’ (2022) thesis illustrates, while users on r/IncelExit may disavow the incels movement, the underlying sense of entitlement to sex with women does not necessarily dissipate for many. For some, there is an apathetic or bitter acceptance of their involuntary celibacy, which does not necessarily challenge this sense of entitlement. Given that some prominent social commentators responding to the emergence of the incels movement have argued for the existence of a (male) right to sex (see Srinivasan, 2021), such views are perhaps unsurprising. Yet, Davis (2022) also identifies that for other users, there does appear to be a much more thorough repudiation and rejection of their previous beliefs, including critiques of ‘hostile masculinity and masculine privilege’ (p. 33). Adding to Davis’ findings, I have also observed posts where it is sometimes unclear whether the author is sincerely challenging their incel beliefs, or are trolling through engaging in bad-faith discussions. In any case, even if a user on r/IncelExit may express views that indicate the continued influence of manosphere ideas, any personal interrogation of their beliefs should nonetheless be welcomed. As I have observed thus far, the de-radicalisation process for most users is neither immediate, nor is it linear. Many users repeatedly revisit the forum to ask for further advice as they gradually seek to move on from their formerly held beliefs, with some posts even indicating a regression in progress at times. Regardless, this journey is more complete for some users, with some former incels and red pillers often encouraging and supporting others who are earlier in their de-radicalisation process. In this way, both forums operate in a similar fashion to the analogous Life After Hate not-for-profit community organisation, where former members of extremist groups mentor and support individuals who are in earlier stages of leaving such movements. ⁸

Because of this mentorship of former incels and red pillers in helping others de-radicalise, these forums could potentially be more effective in reaching those who may be more vulnerable to the manosphere than other initiatives. Pivotally, individuals are organically gathering and participating in these groups across geographic boundaries (although most users do not usually refer to their specific location or country of residence), highlighting the accessibility of this resource and its potential to become a larger supportive community. In contrast, while respectful relationships education is widely encouraged among domestic violence researchers and activists to address the underlying causes of gender-based violence (Rose and Coates, 2021), there would presumably be inherent difficulties in effectively engaging with young boys and men who feel socially alienated and are already engaging with misogynistic manosphere rhetoric before participating in such courses. As social psychology research on learning has long identified, people are more likely to trust and model behaviours based upon those who appear more similar to themselves (Bandura et al., 1961; Schunk, 1987). Therefore, boys who receive such education in school settings may not be receptive to this content if they do not relate to the teacher. Indeed, a recurring sentiment among reformed individuals on r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill is that they often discredited outsider advice because they did not believe that others understood their experiences. Yet, they could find a sense of understanding and solidarity based on shared experiences within incel and red pill communities, where discussions frequently centre on feelings of loneliness, rejection and social isolation (see Thorburn et al., 2022). Thus, an advantage of r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill is that such individuals can find an alternative, accessible space where others may also intimately understand their personal difficulties, but instead encourage more supportive and less harmful responses to these problems.

The narratives shared on r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill also offer insightful perspectives and support for the contention that the neoliberal emphasis on individualism and a capitalist ‘hustle-culture’, underlies the logic of many manosphere ideas, particularly pertaining to dating strategies (see Bratich and Banet-Weiser, 2019; Burgess et al., 2022; Kay, 2021; O’Neill, 2015a; Van Valkenburgh, 2021). For example, manosphere dating strategies often suggest a man should ‘invest’ in his career and physical appearance, to reap profits on the ‘sexual marketplace’ (see Bratich and Banet-Weiser, 2019; Van Valkenburgh, 2021). Yet, as occasional anecdotes on r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill indicate, such a focus can distort how young men view themselves and women. Demonstrating this, one user had recognised that manosphere ideas had led him to worry that by talking to women, he was giving them ‘free attention’ and wasting his time. Furthermore, another user described how the self-improvement strategies he followed from books and YouTube to attract a girlfriend were ‘taking a toll’, because his failure to meet the ambitious goals he strived for made him feel inadequate for the women he desired. Notably, these perspectives suggest that failure to achieve these goals often did not necessarily lead them to first question the validity of the dating strategies or those promoting them. Instead, with neoliberalism and its meritocratic underpinnings, blame is often individualised in response to failure (see Paul, 2018). This is evident in the following discourse from a poster on r/IncelExit: ‘I always pushed myself hard to be the best I could . . . When nothing was working, I blamed myself that I wasn’t trying hard enough to achieve my goal’. Nonetheless, despite the inherent difficulty of challenging this worldview, this narrative actually comes from a user who was able to eventually identify how this focus was hurting him, and how he sought to change it by accepting himself, despite not solving his original aim of finding a girlfriend: ‘I am just a single man who fears being alone. I want to accept and acknowledge this emotion, grieve it, and continue on’. Thus for some users, there was not just a rejection of the ideas of pick-up artists and others in the manosphere, but also the neoliberal logics of ‘success’ that such discourses are built upon.

Focusing on the unique perspectives of the men and boys who have disavowed their former misogynistic beliefs, or are in the process of interrogating such views, also offers a novel perspective into the ongoing debate within the critical studies on men and masculinities field about theoretically accounting for men’s agency and capacity to change. Centrally, there is difficulty within this area in conceptualising the emergence of more progressive and inclusive enactments of masculinity, while still recognising the ongoing patriarchal state of affairs (see Duncanson, 2015; Ralph and Roberts, 2020; Waling, 2019). For example, some have critiqued hegemonic and hybrid masculinity theorists as inherently viewing any progressive performance of masculinity suspiciously, akin to hegemonic masculinity in disguise (Duncanson, 2015; Waling, 2019). However, Anderson’s (2009) Inclusive Masculinity Theory (IMT) has been critiqued for being overly optimistic and overly linear in its view that the declines in homophobia will lead to greater gender equality more broadly (O’Neill, 2015b). Ultimately, Ralph and Roberts (2020) contend that the masculinities field must find a ‘theoretical middle ground’ (p. 99) within this debate.

Considering these discussions in relation to the manosphere is an intriguing exercise. The rise in popularity of the manosphere in the years following Anderson’s (2009) initial elucidation of IMT clearly challenges this work’s ‘decidedly optimistic’ view (O’Neill, 2015b: 106). Meanwhile, Ging’s (2019) influential article theorising the masculinities of the manosphere has emphasised the applicability of hybrid masculinity to incels, as they portray themselves as victims of feminism while simultaneously harassing and advocating for the total subordination of women (see also Thorburn et al., 2022). Yet, in any case, the narratives of many men and boys within r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill illustrate the need for the masculinities field to account conceptually for the complexities of men and boys’ performances of gender (see Ralph and Roberts, 2020). As users on these forums dramatically demonstrate, even men and boys who have held the most vehemently misogynistic views have the agency and capacity to change. By raising awareness and supporting the ambitious goals of such forums, hopefully this point will only be underlined further in the years to come.

Without minimising the positive development these forums appear to be, we nonetheless must be careful to not place all onus on individuals to change their behaviour, when clearly the emergence and popularity of the manosphere points to much broader changes within society (see O’Neill, 2015a). As the narratives presented earlier describe, the individualising pain that can stem from failing to achieve the ambitious goals of self-help motivational discourses, supports emerging evidence that neoliberal ‘hustle culture’ is unduly pressuring many young adults to be highly successful (see Burgess et al., 2022). It is unrealistic to expect any individual to surmount these societal expectations and pressures with ease, especially when manosphere ideas prey upon the insecurities that young men have about their failure to perform traits associated with hegemonic masculinity (Thorburn et al., 2022).

Nonetheless, there are also emerging signs of pushback against these broader cultural pressures too. Beyond the discourses on r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill detailed here, that sometimes highlight a rejection and acknowledgement of the harms that celebrated (and often unobtainable) ideals of masculinity within the manosphere can bring, there are also potentially signs of a broader sea-change that repudiates similar aspects of social media culture more generally. BeReal, a social media app that encourages users to post a less-curated and more candid photo of themselves at a randomly designated moment of the day, has recently become immensely popular among generation Z (Pitofsky, 2022). And with unfiltered, messy and even unflattering posts on Instagram becoming more common, some see these shifts as an emerging youth-driven counter-cultural response that strives for digital authenticity, in rejection of the perfectionist social media influencer style that dominated the 2010s (Lavoipierre, 2022). Although we must always be careful when reading digital culture tea-leaves, r/ExRedPill, r/IncelExit and other emerging shifts, may nonetheless point to a larger rejection of social media inauthenticity driven by hustle culture. While time will eventually tell here on this broader hypothesis, in the meantime, r/IncelExit and r/ExRedPill already show that the misogynistic, antifeminist and neoliberal logics of the manosphere, are already being challenged by those who formerly took the red and black pills themselves.