Interview with Kasturi Wilson,Managing Director,Transportation Sector,Hemas Holdings PLC,Sri Lanka

Can you briefly describe your career trajectory?

I am an accountant by profession. However, this was by accident since I aspired to become an engineer, and missed the marks which meant I could not enter university to do a degree in Engineering. Instead I received admission to University of Colombo to do a degree in Physical Science which didn’t appeal to me. Since I was a sports woman, as soon as I left school, I joined Someswaran, Jayawickrama & Co. which was an audit firm and at that time they were the “A-division netball champions.” My boss decided that I needed to do something with my life and pushed me to get qualified as an accountant—hence my journey in CIMA. I worked for 10 years in an audit firm and ended up as director consulting. In 1998, I moved into Aramex, a freight forwarding and courier firm.

Until 1998, I was on a flexible working schedule at work and was not a full-time career person. This was due to the fact that I was a young mum. When I became I single parent at an early age, I had to move to full-time work. The responsibility of bringing up two young boys and supporting them made me focus on my career. As the financial controller for Aramex, I worked for three years and was lucky to join Hemas in 2002. I have now been at Hemas for 13 years and this is my fourth role in 13 years. I started as GM in the inbound leisure and then moved on to set up shared services for the group. From shared services I took on a group role as chief process officer. Four years ago, I was pushed into this role. The career per se was not planned. But I guess whenever I felt bored I had the guts to tell my bosses I was bored. And always a new door opened. But one thing which was common throughout my career is I enjoyed what I did. When I didn’t, I would have conversations with my boss. When I took this role up I was not sure whether I would enjoy it because I was used to a functional role. The other factor was that my new direct reporters would be senior to me and had immense industry experience, whereas I was virtually a newcomer.

Have you faced gender based challenges in your career? If so, how did you manage such challenges?

Honestly, wherever I have worked I haven’t personally faced any discrimination. However, I did face challenges in certain instances, due to the fact that I was a single parent, who had two young sons. I did make choices for my sons’ sake. There were certain times where I would be attending an official function, knowing I was eating into my kids’ quality time. As a mother, I battled internal conflicts within myself. But in terms of career progression in my organization, I obviously didn’t have to face challenges; but, of course, they give more respect and more leverage when you are a female and more flexibility to do your own thing. They respect the fact that you have multiple roles to play. The organization appreciated my strengths and the contribution I made towards its growth.

On the subject of the glass ceiling, personally it was the ceiling I imposed on myself, where you take a call or a choice based on your personal circumstances and priorities. Sometimes, I do wonder if I got this job opportunity eight years ago, I would have accepted it or handled the workload effectively. At Aramex, I was working for an expatriate boss who just respected the work I brought to the table. He actually didn’t even have any bias and he expected me to go into operations. So I actually haven’t faced gender based challenges so to speak. In the maritime industry, I do face some unfamiliarity since it is a very male dominant industry and the industry is about networking and entertaining, but they do respect you. I don’t try to be a man; I don’t try to entertain them in the same settings as a male counterpart would. So you face challenges, but I didn’t face any obstacles.

Who are the major people who have assisted you in your career and what was their role?

As a kid, I was always encouraged to take challenges. Whatever I did I took it head on. I was not scared to fail. My parents always encouraged me in whatever I tried my hand at. But if you say major people, at my first job, my boss Mr Jayawickrama without whom I wouldn’t be who I am today. Since I couldn’t afford to educate myself, but he had faith, and the company paid for my CIMA examinations. My mother, who tirelessly worked to educate my sister and me, and ensured all our needs were met. I watched her make many sacrifices, and the strength she showed influenced me a lot. Then Mr Husein who is the chairman of Hemas, was one person who believed in me more than I believed in myself. Mr Husein has influenced me a lot in what I have learnt and the roles I took on. Those two people and my parents, and others who really worked well under me.

How do you manage work and family life?

In the early years of my children’s lives, I enjoyed the fact that I dropped them at Montessori and I picked them. I would be honest with my employers about my childcare responsibilities but would work hard to fulfil my work responsibilities. If you have that conversation, your work will be valued. Then I think you could adjust. If I have a female who is exceptionally good and I know what she would bring to the table irrespective of whether she works from eight to five, is well-worth the company’s money. I am quite flexible if people wish to work from home. I say you work from home, if you have kids, I only want the job done.

At Hemas, they treated me well and valued my contribution. They understood that I was a single mom; they knew my kids were an extension of me. So, for me, they valued that human side, not only me, but with most of the people they value and they want to retain—they understand. If you want a female to grow, you cannot treat her the same way you treat a man. A career woman would always be juggling other roles—as a home maker, a mother, a daughter and a wife—and these roles too are equally important to them. Despite the key responsibilities I shouldered, I made sure that my other roles were not neglected.

In the global context, what do you think are the reasons that not many women are found in the upper levels of organizations and inboards?

Even though I didn’t face it I think there is an element of board room behaviour. I admire Indra Nooyi now because she has come out as a feminine leader in the board room side of it. It might be just that they feel that a woman may not be able to make the time commitment a senior person has to make. For example, for me when my kids were younger, the employer was expecting me to do an MBA. I couldn’t commit to that since that could take away my time from my kids. So it is a call you take. Globally in most societies, a man is looked upon as the bread-winner and the wife as the home-maker. Corporates are evolving and the benefits of gender diversity at board level are clearly seen.

In the specific context of South Asia, what special issues and challenges do you see in terms of gender equality?

I think the challenges are more pronounced. Again it comes down to culture. Traditionally, in South Asia, there is a lower percentage of women who are (a) in the workforce and (b) in the senior management. Yes, it is tougher but the corporates are very much sensitive to the female workforce and obstacles and challenges are often addressed. I do believe that for women how you come across matters. There is a tendency to brand strong women as aggressive. Even if you are trying to tell an intellectual point across and you are not meeting your feminine tone you are branded as aggressive.

Pepsi CEO Ms Indra Nooyi said “women can’t have it all.” What are your views on this?

I don’t agree on that. I think they are talking in the context of having a proper career, having a perfect family life, having a husband who accepts it, having parents who accept it, having kids who are well-rounded, but having said that you find a female who has a decent job who might not be at the top but has fulfilment in terms of the kids and a husband, she might be happy saying I have it all. So it depends on what one defines as “having it all.”

If a woman is happy progressing her career and that fulfils her life’s ambitions, she should not step back. Have your career; adjust your lifestyle to accommodate your career and family. Having it all is where you figure out what defines personal fulfilment to you, and understanding and accepting the compromises which you have to make. It’s very subjective on what drives the person and what makes the person happy. I am personally happy with what I have achieved and the compromises I have made in terms of my career and as a mum, as a daughter and a human being.

In her book Lean In, Sheryl Sandberg exhorts women that rather than waiting passively for others to address gender inequality, they should become bold, ambitious and take charge. Your views?

Yes you should take charge. When people come to me and say they are getting married and giving up work, I advise them to explore alternatives rather than sacrificing their career ambitions because that is what I did and it helped me. If I didn’t, I would never have had a career to walk back into. So you need to take charge of your career. I was fortunate enough I had a boss who convinced me. So that is something we do, we actually underestimate our capabilities.

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella was recently embroiled in a controversy by saying something to the effect that it’s bad karma for women to ask for a salary raise. What is your reaction?

I think he is into astrology, but that maybe his view point which I don’t agree with. I can talk about my experience. Women generally don’t talk about salary raise. They might say thank you for anything they get. I coach my juniors to open out and ask for what they are worth but that is something we need to start learning, to talk. If you take a man and a woman who do the same job role, it’s a global experience that a man gets paid approximately 20–30 per cent higher than any woman. So we don’t sell ourselves. Women underestimate and sell themselves lower than their competencies whereas men oversell their capabilities generally. They talk well and they brand themselves better. But it doesn’t come naturally for women to talk about their salaries or positioning themselves better. Having said that, the younger generation is more open about these matters. So I don’t agree on that bad karma argument.

What role do you see for the Human Resources function as a change agent in addressing diversity management in general and gender diversity and equality in particular?

One thing is you already have women in the workforce. You need to engage with them to take down the barriers of certain roles they can’t play. Get them to try things and give them the confidence that the organization would also accommodate their personal issues. We have not evolved to make it as a policy and I don’t think any company has made this policy about what they can do and what they can’t do. But we should actually give them the confidence that you do your part and if something is needed we are there behind you. We will face and make whatever consequences and whatever adjustments you need, we will face it together. So HR has to be there to figure out their talent and what makes them tick, what their personal issues are. They should engage women and they should encourage more women to get into the workforce.

What is the role of the top management on this?

Give direction to HR. HR cannot go and have a conversation without the top management’s support and strategic direction with the philosophy of getting more empowered workforce, and accepting women who give a diverse view. In my work trips, I meet many women executives with boundless energy. There has to be a conducive culture and philosophy.

What are the specific challenges and impediments for women in leadership roles?

I think when you go up the career ladder, there is a lot of strain on your mind. There is a lot of responsibility. You take decisions, you are responsible for the people, and coupled with that if you are responsible for your family and children, you need somebody to share your burden with. You need a good support system. If you don’t have a support system, be it your husband or parents, then that would be the biggest challenge.

Can you comment on the culture of an organization and its impact on women’s careers?

I think an organization should have a women-friendly culture with no scope for discrimination. I have a maritime manager who is averse to employing females and sometimes at a deeper level I understand; it’s all about port operations. I have interviewed women for the positons and found they too were not comfortable with long hours and outdoor operations. There are certain areas women choose not to handle. That is why we need legislative support, such as mandatory paternity leave.

What specific advice would you give to young women in tackling gender inequality at the workplace?

I would say they should not be shy in showing their competencies. They need to put themselves up out there. Don’t be shy that you are a female. Sometimes you cannot wait for others to notice, you have to get noticed. Don’t underestimate yourself, that’s one thing I would tell all women.

What would be your advice to other women seeking senior positions?

I would say go for it but also keep in mind that successful career comes with sacrifices and challenges, sacrifices on our part and on the part of supporting partners and family. These are choices we make, and have to live with. If women believe in their capability and willing to accept the challenge I think organizations are waiting to open doors and are flexible enough to allow women to succeed.