Khursand Bayar Ali is a Lahore-based human rights defender, a transgender activist and is currently working with the International Commission of Jurists as a project manager on gender-based violence. She also works with the Saathi Foundation, an organisation working for the rights of transgender individuals. Khursand also runs a theatre production group called Nautanki Productions.
The complete lockdown in the province of Punjab was imposed at the end of March 2020 and lasted until early May; subsequently, the province experienced periodic partial or ‘smart’ lockdowns until early August. The lockdowns were officially lifted across the country on 10 August. This interview was conducted via Skype on 23 June 2020.
Nida: With regard to the Khwaja Sira community and the wider transgender community, what has been the impact of the lockdown—if we can actually call it a lockdown—on these groups?
Khursand: It’s not really a lockdown; it’s more of a semi-lockdown, which means that shops close at 5 pm. In this whole pandemic situation, the Khwaja Sira community and the trans-community have been greatly affected, because they cannot go out publicly as a group to get money through vadhai or toli. And people are not approaching the sex worker community, so their regular clientele is being affected, and they are having to compromise on their demands. They have to keep earning because they live in rented houses and they have to eat and make ends meet, not to mention send money back home. Due to all this, these two groups have been greatly affected. I was listening to the news, and apparently they are thinking of reinstating the lockdown in a couple of days. These issues will then increase. In the past few weeks, they were able to recover because people were able to go out, but I’m not sure what will happen if the lockdown is reinforced. For these two groups, their livelihoods depend on either sex work or on the toli and vadhai that they receive at [marriage] functions. If neither is occurring, because weddings aren’t happening and there are no related functions, then all of this affects these two groups a lot more.
Nida: Can you explain the difference between toli and vadhai?
Khursand: Toli is a performance group of sorts that leaves the dera, which is the Khwaja Sira house where four to five people live together, and it happens every day except for Thursdays. The group has three to four people including a dancer, a guru and a couple of people from the community. They are joined by a couple of musicians who play either the harmonium or the tabla. Their business is also dependant on these communities. When there is no toli, then the well-being of the families of the musicians is also affected….Vadhai is related to localities. Within the boundary of every locality, there are specific deras under gurus and Khwaja Siras assigned to that area who visit houses to collect monetary tokens on happy occasions such as the birth of a child, the announcement of a wedding, or on the first day for a bride after her wedding when she meets her family for the first time….
Nida: And both of these things aren’t happening anymore.
Khursand: Yes, exactly, because of the pandemic, neither of these are happening. And the other tasks associated with these occasions aren’t happening anymore either. For example, some Khwaja Siras work as tailors or seamstresses, beauticians, or as solo dancers, and they are unable to do so anymore because the main events that all these were tied to aren’t happening anymore.
Nida: So how were they managing during the lockdown and right after?
Khursand: Metropolitan cities such as Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad have a lot of NGOs and CBOs (community-based organisations). The organisations in these three major cities were able to help a little by providing monthly food rations or aid for rental payments. Some individuals ran drives for this supplementary aid. Our organisation also ran drives. But in smaller cities, these activities do not happen as often or in the same way. And when it comes to monthly rations, those are also reducing as most of these organisations are funded via donations. People aren’t able to donate the way they used to. In addition, in some areas, we gave rent stipends, but those too were heavily reliant on donations, and due to diminishing donations, we aren’t able to provide stipends either. The negative consequence of this is that the people from these communities who weren’t part of sex work and opted instead for the entertainment business or were involved in toli or vadhai are now forced to stand on the roads and sell themselves for less than their worth [engage in sex work]. This is problematic, and it often results in them not being able to refuse when a customer asks them to engage in an act that they might not be comfortable with. But because of the circumstances, they have to do it because they have to earn money.
Nida: What’s their opinion about the pandemic? Are they worried about Covid or is it not really a concern for them? What would they like to happen in regard to the lockdown?
Khursand: Nida, when it comes to the people I’ve talked to so far, in particular the educated sector of the sex workers, initially they were okay with the lockdown as they thought this would only be for a few days. They took that time as a break. But when it got prolonged, it impacted their business badly. Then Covid wasn’t the primary concern for them. See, there is depression and fear associated with staying at home. On top of that, if you do not have money or the means to earn in a financial crisis, you will not think about the virus as much, because you have to not only keep the dera running but also send money back home. Therefore, a Khwaja Sira who is supporting two families will not have the luxury of being concerned about a disease. They normally say, ‘if we don’t die of Covid, we will die of hunger if we don’t have money’. The situation is the same for them on both cases. Amongst all the people I have talked to, whether they were educated or not, or whether they were from the trans-community or from the Khwaja Sira culture, all of them say that they are not happy with the situation because our economic system has been disturbed because of the lockdown and they cannot predict what will happen next. On top of the loss that they have incurred in the last four to five months, their rents have also increased due to landlords being equally impacted by this situation….The country’s overall economy has been impacted negatively, and these sectors of the population have had to suffer disproportionately. A community like this depends solely on cash; they have no relations to banks or salaried jobs and do not run businesses where they can save. They earn on a daily basis; they have daily wages, and that is how they take care of their expenses and where their savings come from. They’ve utilised all their savings over the past months, and they are concerned about how they are to survive in the coming months if the lockdown is extended. Luckily, there were some organisations who were able to support them, but if these organisations stop getting donations, then the problem becomes bigger.
Nida: From your experience as someone who has worked with these communities, what do you think the solution is?
Khursand: Covid is real, and we know this. But we live in a society and in a country where the government never declares a plan B. They simply implement what they decide. We understand that the lockdown is important and should be obeyed. But when it comes to communities like these, such as the transgender community or daily wagers, what has the government put in place for them? The programmes that have been started such as the Ehsaas programme which was also for the trans-community, are so difficult to access because they need a gadget. You need a smartphone to use that programme. The Citizens’ Portal also requires a smartphone and you have to make an account on it to log in. For an illiterate or uneducated person, that’s a lot to ask….From what I have heard, only 5%–7% people have benefited from this programme.
Nida: Do you mean generally for the people who are deserving and fall into the required categories of the programme, only 5%–7% of them have benefited?
Khursand: No, I’m talking specifically about the transgender community. I’m not aware of the overall impact of the programme. But within the trans-community, a maximum of 10% of the people have benefited. When this programme was started, we made sure that we went to people’s houses or we called them to our offices and helped register their accounts, but even all of those people who owned the Trans ID cards and officially fell in the Khwaja Sira category didn’t get anything out of it.
Nida: What would you say, should the existing system be improved or should a lockdown not happen at all?
Khursand: The lockdown is obviously very important given the current situation. But if the system is improved, then that would be very beneficial and is very important. In addition, there are several government institutions catering to those in need, such as social welfare and accountability bureaus as well as the dar-ul-amaans and dar-ul-shafqats —the government needs to set up a system that is a one-window operation where the trans-community can get tested and be provided with rations. There are governmental institutions that are providing rations too, but they are so scattered, and the process is so tedious…and you have to incur the cost of travelling there and back too, so it isn’t working. In Lahore, the provincial-level Punjab AIDS Control Programme was taking care of the transgender community during the Covid pandemic. The government can make that office a one-stop shop for this. Three or four members of the Khwaja Sira community have died without getting tested and passed away from a heart attack or from other unknown reasons, which remain so because they couldn’t get tested. The tests were too expensive for them, and there were no governmental policies to help them. We need to look at our policies. The civil society—the NGOs and CBOs—have tried their best, but they are also dependant on charity and donations. When those slow down and dissipate, then they will not be able to help effectively. The government needs to develop policies before enforcing the lockdown about what the lockdown looks like and how they will supplement the daily wagers and the trans-community with a relief plan and how that relief plan will be made accessible. I have not yet seen any advertisements on national channels informing people about where they can get themselves registered for rations, rental stipends or general medications. Tell the people how to survive and stay alive.
Nida: It sounds like a bad situation. The community was already very insecure, and that insecurity has just multiplied and become worse during this pandemic.
